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RVSM is it a killer?

Discussion in 'Latest Airline Incidents' started by Richard Wyeroski, Mar 20, 2017.

  1. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    This ATC procedure was controversial when it became mandatory back in 2005. Reduced Vertical Seperation Minimums RVSM allows more aircraft to use the same airspace. Before 2005, aircraft were separated by 2000 feet vertically above 28000 feet and when RVSM became mandatory that separation was reduced to 1000 feet. Because of this reduction in separation, hundreds of older jet aircraft were taken out of service and scrapped, because it became uneconomical to convert these aircraft. Many believed it was a scheme to get rid of the older aircraft. A 1974 Hawker jet I was flying back then was on the list and the boss decided to scrap the aircraft and we lost our jobs. Overall and estimated 450 older business jets were removed from service and scrapped.

    Aircraft now fly around seperated by 1000 feet vertically and wake turbulence is and has become a continuing problem. Over the years numerous incidents have occurred as light jet aircraft flew too close to larger heavy aircraft. Just recently a Challeneger 604 was damaged and it's passengers injured when the 604 flew too close to an Airbus 380.

    I have always believed that RVSM was never necessary and is dangerous.....

    What say you?? ........MORE
    http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...ons-a380-separation?eid=325859230&bid=1698492
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
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  2. Rotorruss

    Rotorruss Hangar Bronze Member VI

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    Rich,

    I raised this very concern with HQ and they said I needed to shut up and I didn't know what I was talking about. It only takes one. Thank goodness no one has killed.

    I was on an enroute in a guppy flying in trail with a MD-11. ATC let us down first putting us thru the 11s wake. Needless to say it was an interesting ride.
     
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  3. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    We know that the Headquarters could care less until an accident happens. Everyone flying in the US in small jets that I know has a RVSM story. Flying through wakes or having their aircraft grounded and scrapped is all too common. There is statistics on incidents and injuries reported, but FAA keeps this under wraps.....
     
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  4. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    BTW the 777 and the Airbus 380 are two aircraft that have wakes that are severe.....
     
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  5. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    I would imagine that the 747 is no cake walk either.
     
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  6. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    ......My little job back in 2005 was lost because the RVSM modification would have cost 400k. The 1974 Hawker was only worth about 400k. It was a reliable aircraft and flew well except the RVSM modification was necessary if we wanted to fly above flight level 280. Jets are very inefficient at this altitude and they use a lot more fuel. Over 450 perfectly good jet aircraft were scrapped. I believe that was the real reason to push this agenda. US airspace is not as crowed as the FAA would lead you to believe. ...

    I find it interesting that jet manufacturers believed that these operators were going to rush out buy a 15 million dollar jet? Not everyone could afford these aircraft. The whole situation was agenda driven and in the end the operator literally got screwed.....and lost their aircraft !

    THANK YOU FAA;)
     
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  7. Exuma Guy

    Exuma Guy Hangar Silver Member V

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    Most of the bizjets that were scrapped also failed to meet Stage 3 noise levels. Their demise was coming anyway. The 'agenda', if there was one, was driven by the airlines. The technology was proven in Europe and the airlines wanted more access the mid to high 30's over the US for fuel economy. I don't have much light jet time, but I do have a lot of time in RVSM airspace. Never had a wake turbulence issue while in cruise.
     
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  8. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    .......my point is light jets are susceptible to the wake of larger transport category jets.......the 777 being the worst.....

    The Hawker I flew with viper engines was loud, however the airports we flew too had no noise limited like Teterboro NJ. Break the desible limit 3 times and you are barred from the airport. I knew of one operator the flew GII and threes ....that would have to change their N-numbers once and a while to be able to get back in the airport......the point is if you owned a perfectly good airworthy low cost jet the RVSM requirements effectively turned your aircraft into a hamburger stand.....!
     
  9. Rotorruss

    Rotorruss Hangar Bronze Member VI

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    The agency has known about wake issues for years. They even evaluated it at least once.

     
  10. Rotorruss

    Rotorruss Hangar Bronze Member VI

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    ... and this one too.

     
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  11. Rotorruss

    Rotorruss Hangar Bronze Member VI

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    ....and this one.

     
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  12. Rotorruss

    Rotorruss Hangar Bronze Member VI

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    ...I also seem to.remember a crash no to long after 9/11 involving wake. Of course they blamed it on the FO stomping on the pedals and a questionable repair of the aircraft's tail. Nothing like the government shifting the blame from vectoring an aircraft into wake and aircraft spacing to pilot error.
     
  13. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    Yeah, The Rockaway crash and it was flying through a 747 wake 90 degrees from it's side too.
     

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